Discussing Promiscuous Plants with Metha Klock
Can plant promiscuity address the 1.4 trillion dollar toll invasive species take on the world each year? Dr. Metha Klock, postdoctorial associate at Cornell University and former member of the Dr. Kyle Harms' lab in the Department of Biological Sciences, shares how the mutualism between plants and fungi can unlock the patterns behind species invasion and inform management of natural areas. (Transcript below)
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Transcript
Becky Carmichael
[0:01] This is Experimental where we explore exciting research occurring at Louisiana State University and learn about the individuals posing the questions. I'm Becky Carmichael. Dr. Metha Klock, Ph.D. graduate from the Harms Lab in biological sciences, discusses today, plant mutualisms and how those promiscuous relationships may aid in the invasion of ecosystems.
Metha Klock
[0:24] Promiscuity, it's not just an animal thing. Did you know that plants can be promiscuous too. Plants interact with the world around them. In fact, they are constantly interacting with other organisms, from birds to fungi to microbes, just to name a few. Some plants are less selective with the organisms they'll associate with. We call these promiscuous hosts. As a community ecologist, I explore interactions in the natural world and look at how they influence the invasion of species in new ranges. I look specifically at mutualisms, those interactions that are good for both parties involved, and try to figure out whether plants that are more promiscuous mutualist are better at surviving in areas where they are introduced. The specific mutualism I've been most interested in is between legumes and rhizobia. Legumes are plants in the pea family, and rhizobia are nitrogen fixing bacteria that occur in the soil. Most legumes have the specialized ability to interact beneficially with rhizobia. Underground, out of sight, bacteria infect the root hairs of the plants. The plants develop a structure called a nodule, where the bacteria live. The bacteria in these nodules sequester nitrogen that occurs in our atmosphere and convert it into a form that the plant can use. In turn the plant provide sugars to the bacteria. Why does this matter as far as invasion is concerned? Nitrogen is limiting for many plant species. So legumes that have this relationship with rhizobia have access to their own personalized source of nitrogen, which may provide them with a competitive advantage in new ranges over native non nitrogen fixing plant species. Legumes are not only mutualists. Some are promiscuous too. One of my research questions looks at whether promiscuous legume hosts, or those that can associate with more strains of rhizobia are the ones that become successful invaders. The more promiscuous a legume host is, the more easily it may find rhizobial partners when introduced to a new range. So far, I've found evidence that invasive legumes are more promiscuous than naturalized or non invasive legumes. And this is helping us understand why certain species are successful invaders in new ranges. Plants are pretty sexy creatures. And there's evidence that the less discerning a plant is for its mutualistic partners, the more likely it may be to invade any region. In my research at Louisiana State University, I started unraveling one of the mechanisms behind species invasions, but there's still a lot of work to do. Invasive species are currently recognized as the second largest threat to biodiversity following human driven habitat destruction. Researchers estimate that there are around 50,000 non-native species in the United States alone, and approximately 4300 of these are invasive. The Nature Conservancy estimates that damage from invasive species worldwide has cost us $1.4 trillion. $1.4 trillion dollars! Our ability to easily transport new species to novel areas has put a pressure on ecosystems that they are not capable of responding to in a balanced way. The goal of my research is to increase our knowledge about how species invade new regions, so that we can find better ways to manage those that are already causing harm. But even more so to prevent the introduction of new species that could become invasive. Interactions are everywhere. And providing answers to how interactions promote the invasion of species and new ranges can help us develop plans to mitigate or stop their further invasion and alleviate the damage they're causing the natural world.
Becky Carmichael
[4:20] Hi, Metha. How are you?
Metha Klock
[4:21] I'm good. How are you, Becky?
Becky Carmichael
[4:22] I am wonderful. So let's get this started. Tell me a little bit about what... How the interest in your field began? What spurred that interest?
Metha Klock
[4:30] Yeah. I think I was always interested in nature ever since I was a little kid. I grew up with, you know, a mountain right at my doorstep. I hiked all the time with my mom. My grandpa was a big hiker, so I was just always exposed to that as a child and really loved nature. When I was an undergraduate, I actually didn't study science at all. I went to a liberal arts college, and I took full advantage of that and studied psychology, sociology, writing, art, just all sorts of things. It wasn't until after I graduated and worked in publishing for a couple of years and realized that I really didn't want a job where I was stuck inside all the time under fluorescent lights, without being able to be outdoors at all. Then I realized I really need to find a job where I can work outdoors, where I can use this love of nature and really interact with the things that were most important to me. So I had previously volunteered at a native plant nursery. That's part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area. And I found out that they had internships. And so I applied for the internship and was accepted. And I basically lived out in a national park for a year. Yeah, it was wonderful. It was great, because you really get to see how things change in the natural world over time. Little quail were born at one point, and then the quail... There was about... I don't know... There was a bunch of little quail running around, then all all of a sudden there were fewer quail and fewer quail. But yeah, I really loved being in that area. And I worked at a nursery that was doing native habitat restoration. And after doing that for a year, I knew that I had to keep working in that field.
Becky Carmichael
[6:18] So that sounds exciting. I can see how both the time at the internship really helps kind of foster that ability to kind of figure out what you want to do, but then also with your training in liberal arts you found that that has helped you as a scientist now.
Metha Klock
[6:33] Absolutely. One of the main things that Sarah Lawrence emphasized was writing. And being able to be a writer and communicate well the ideas that you have is essential really in any field. It also taught me that I could explore, that I could try all different things. And so I wasn't relegated to questions that people had asked before. I could think up my own questions and take those the direction that they wanted to go.
Becky Carmichael
[7:01] Yeah, I think it's a true opportunity to understand not just what it means to be inquisitive, but what it takes to be a scientist. To really kind of think outside the box, but also to be aware of kind of what's already known. So filling in those gaps.
Metha Klock
[7:14] Yeah. And that education teaches you how to learn too. So you know, you might not remember all the details from your undergraduate education, every class that you took. But if you learn how to learn, you can take that with you wherever you go.
Becky Carmichael
[7:28] So then, now that you've become your... You've completed your degree. I'd like you to think a little bit back and what would you consider to be one of your greatest mistakes in terms of your path to get to this point, now?
Metha Klock
[7:45] I like to think that, you know, I didn't make any mistakes, because I am where I am today, and I'm happy where I am today. So I like to think that, you know, everything that happened, even if it wasn't all great at all times, wasn't a mistake. But if I had to list something that I wish I would have done more of, it would be to have asked people for help more often. I think especially coming from a liberal arts background into this pretty serious science field, I sometimes felt intimidated by people. I felt like I didn't know as much as other people. And I was worried that if I asked for help that I would look stupid. And so sometimes that kept me from, you know, being able to streamline things, really. If I just asked somebody for help, they would have been able to tell me the answer and I could have skipped over a lot of hurdles. On one hand, you know, not asking for help forces you to do research and figure it out yourself. But asking for help also opens you up to collaborations with people and as I went through my dissertation, I got a lot better at this. And I ended up developing relationships with people, both at LSU and at the research organization that I was working in in Australia, and I stopped being afraid so much to ask people, you know, I don't know how to do this. Can you tell me how to do this? And so eventually, I've developed skills at being better at that. But I think that early on, that was one of my mistakes, was not asking people for help as much as I could have or should have.
Becky Carmichael
[9:17] And so then if you were to think about to kind of looking at yourself at a younger age, is that going to be what you would tell yourself, be sure you're asking for help? Do you have a kind of a an idea of what stage someone... How far... How soon should someone ask for help?
Metha Klock
[9:33] I think that I actually learned from one of my collaborators in Australia. You do as much research as you can to get to that answer, and then if you can't get any further then you ask somebody. But, you know, you have to remember that people are really busy too. And if you just come to their door in a tizzy and you don't know what you're doing, you go, help me! You know? You probably won't get as good of an answer as if you ask them that question and an educated way. So I think that that would have helped, you know, just to... Or that that helps in getting the answer to the questions that you have. Something I would have told my younger self was to not worry so much about things. When I first started my PhD, I was really concerned about everything going perfectly. And my advisor, Dr. Kyle Harms, gave me the opportunity during my first summer to really just go out and explore and research these plants that I was interested in looking at. And so I went to California, and I drove all over the place. And I was trying to find these plants. And I kept thinking, I need to be collecting data. I need to be collecting data. I'm not collecting data. I'm just, you know, looking at where they are, which in a sense is collecting data.
Becky Carmichael
[10:45] Yeah, you're observing.
Metha Klock
[10:46] Yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[10:46
Which is... The observing is a good part of the scientific process
Metha Klock
[10:49] Yeah and I didn't... But I didn't think that that was the right thing to do, or I didn't think that that was as worthwhile as if I actually had a clipboard with a data sheet. And I was filling in data lines. So I think I would tell myself, don't be so worried, you know? Just explore, go and see things. Let the patterns come out to you as you're exploring. Because if you're so worried about what you know, the detailed things that you need, that you think are going to be useful down the line, you sort of stifle yourself. And that summer ended up being extremely important. And the times that I went back to California to actually collect data, now I knew where the plants were. I didn't have to go search them out all over the place. I made connections with other researchers in California in that summer, and just went and talked to people at different schools at Cal Poly and at University of California in Santa Cruz. And so that summer was really invaluable, and was probably one of the most, you know, useful times in my PhD. I just wish that I'd allowed myself to enjoy it a little bit more and not be so worried about what was coming out of it.
Becky Carmichael
I think that the worry part is really kind of difficult, especially when you're starting something, to overcome, because you've got so many years to complete. And you have all these different tasks coming your way. But I think that that's excellent advice. And also, it sounds like you did quite a bit of field work. Did you have anyone coming out to assist you? Were you ever by yourself? How did you manage tackling the amount of data collection that you had to take on to complete to get your dissertation completed?
Metha Klock
Yeah. I did a lot of field work, both in Australia and in California. And one of the things that I wish that I had had or wish that I had thought about beforehand a little bit more was having help in the field. I very strongly feel that people should have field buddies or research assistants with them. Even if that just means dragging your mom and dad or your sister or your friend out with you. I feel like you know, there's lots of things that can happen in the field, whether it's interactions with people, animals, stepping in a hole and hurting yourself, there's lots of variables that you can't control. And so I ended up doing a fair amount of field research or field work on my own. There were moments where I definitely felt uncomfortable. And I did try to listen to those moments. And I was fortunate not to get into any, you know, anything too sketchy of a situation. But I would say to young researchers, that they really should try to develop partnerships with people where they can do field work together. It's just a safer way to do it, and it's really not worth it. I think we feel a lot of pressure to get data for our dissertations. And I think sometimes we just do it without really thinking about our own personal safety, because we want to get this done. And we want to get papers published. And we want to get good stuff. But we really need to plan ahead to make those situations as safe for ourselves as we can. So...
Becky Carmichael
[13:50] And I think that you're also highlighting another layer there of that collaborative effort, that opportunity for observation. But those friendships, I feel like you can go out with someone and they don't have to necessarily be within your lab. Like you said, you can bring a family member, but even bringing someone from outside of your discipline or outside of your particular area. Not only do they offer that layer of safety, they also can bring in that observation where they can highlight things that you didn't necessarily notice that maybe you should have been noticing. Those patterns as well, could lead to an interesting question.
Metha Klock
[14:23] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I dragged my mom and dad out into the field with me. And they enjoyed it, you know? it's like it's a chance for them to get closer to the work that we're doing. Because I think a lot of times, our parents don't really understand what we're doing. And they just sort of say, Good job, dear. But do they really know about it? Not necessarily. So that's a chance for them to experience it firsthand. And, you know, friends and family, for them to really kind of get a better understanding of why you're doing what you're doing.
Becky Carmichael
[14:51] So I know that you graduated this past December with your doctorate. Tell me a little bit. What's your future plans, now? What does this hold for you and your plant interactions?
Metha Klock
[15:03] Well, I'm actually moving to Norway in a few weeks. Above the Arctic Circle, Tromso, Norway, and I'm applying for a Marie Curie grant.
Becky Carmichael
[15:16] Congratulations!
Metha Klock
[15:16] Thank you. I've been invited to symposium there. And after that, I'll be writing the grant. And that's due in September. So hopefully that will fund a postdoc that would start up in January of 2017. And while I'm there, what I want to study is plants that are native, but are sort of displaying potentially invasive tendencies of moving and shifting their range sizes as a result of climate change. So in the Arctic region, temperatures are rising at twice the rate as they are in other parts of the world. And so this is allowing for species that wouldn't normally occur in certain areas to start to move their range north... Northern? Northward. And so I really want to look at particular plant species that are very common in this area, and see how climate change and global warming is allowing them to move up, and how this is then influencing other plants and animals in those areas. So continue looking at interactions, but just in a much more northern climate,
Becky Carmichael
[16:21] I was going to say, you're going to be very, very busy over the next several months.
Metha Klock
[16:24] Yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[16:25] And probably a whole heck of a lot colder than you've been here in Louisiana.
Metha Klock
[16:29] Yeah, It'll be a definite change, but one of the things that I've really loved about my dissertation was the chance to go to all different places in the world. I've been to Australia multiple times. I've been to Costa Rica. I've spent time in Louisiana, time in California, gone to conferences and other parts of the country. And it's really an opportunity for people who are starting out their dissertations, particularly in ecology, to see the world. And if you think of the kinds of questions that might give you the opportunity to do that. I picked the plants that I was interested in, partially because I wanted to go to Australia and I wanted to study species that were native in Australia and invasive in California. And so my dissertation allowed me to do that. So...
Becky Carmichael
That was very strategic planning.
Metha Klock
Yes, very strategic planning. And one thing to that I wanted to mention, is the importance of communicating in science. So, Dr. Carmichael, I've been working with her over the last semester and at the communication across curriculum studio at LSU. And you know, your science only goes so far if you're not able to communicate it, whether that's through presentations or in written ways, or just talking to people, or doing podcasts, bench top talks like this. And so what the work that Dr. Carmichael's doing is extremely important. And I've been really fortunate to work with you, Becky.
Becky Carmichael
[17:59] Awww.
Metha Klock
[18:00] So, I just wanted to say that.
Becky Carmichael
[18:02] You know I'm going to miss you.
Metha Klock
[18:03] Yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[18:04] Yeah. I can say now, you've always been my good friend. So it's gonna be hard to see you go, but I'm very excited to see what the future has in store for you. And yeah...
Metha Klock
[18:25] Awwww.
Becky Carmichael
[18:25] Experimental was recorded and produced in the KLSU Studios here on the campus of Louisiana State University and is supported by LSU's Communication Across the Curriculum and the College of Science. Today's interview was conducted by Becky Carmichael and edited by Bailey Wilder. To learn more about today's episode, subscribe to the podcast, ask questions and recommend future investigators visit cxc.lsu.edu/experimental