The gray landscape of education with Maria F. G. Wallace
How do scientists learn how to teach? With science of course! Maria F. G. Wallace, 2017 Ph.D. graduate of the School of Education in the College of Human Sciences & Education at Louisiana State University and current Assistant Professor of Education at Millsaps College, discusses her research on education of science teachers, both as undergraduates and as early career professionals, to highlight how science education involves a community process of shared experience and investigation among students and instructors. (Transcript below.)
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Transcript
Becky Carmichael
[0:00] This is Experimental, where we explore exciting research occurring at the Louisiana State University and learn about the individuals posing the questions. I'm Becky Carmichael. Maria F.G. Wallace, PhD graduate of the College of Human Sciences and Education at Louisiana State University, discusses her research in science teacher education and induction to highlight how science education involves a community process of shared experience and investigation.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[0:31] What counts as science? What does it mean to become a scientist? And how do definitions of science and scientists underpin our lived experiences? These are just a few of the many questions that have shaped much of my own life, but more recently, my dissertation research with beginning science teachers. Whether you're a K-12 science teacher, undergraduate science professor, medical doctor, or even a five year old child investigating the stability of a sand castle, various definitions and perceptions of science shape our educative experiences. In my research, I work closely with beginning science teachers in order to critically examine the social dynamics of many taken for granted assumptions of what it means to educate others about science. For example, historical traditions of privileging white men and also their thoughts continue to linger throughout scientific endeavors, from norms of methodology, tax and perceptions of who ought to become a scientist. Science teaching in any capacity is often perceived as an act of knowledge dissemination onto others. In this case, students. And thus it continues to maintain an underlying assumption that students always already lack something. This perspective often parallels views of science-teacher development, when in reality science teachers and students walk into every single space, whether it's a classroom, the writing of an article, or even engaging with colleagues with rich science experiences. Unlike most research on science teachers, my work begins from assumptions of abundance rather than lack. Herein lies a generative site for rethinking the way science teachers design educational experiences. Most recently, my dissertation research looks specifically at the ways elementary science teachers are inducted into the profession of K-12 teaching from a holistic perspective. In this research study, I found that teacher induction is often experienced by science teachers as a process of affirmation and also as a performative act. Whether it's a teacher evaluation rubric, curriculum mandates, or campus community expectations, beginning science teachers have an array of challenging experiences they must implicitly and explicitly negotiate. For example, one of the science teachers in my dissertation enacted what I refer to as a Goldilocks science curriculum. This teacher did not want her science instruction to be seen by her colleagues as too radical or too lazy, but rather had to find the just right fit for her in her context. Again, another tricky intersection of what beginning science teachers ought to do or become surfaces. Believe it or not, the way I engage my research with science teachers is greatly shaped by my past work as a geologist. Geology is what taught me how to see social processes shaping science education, as always contextualize within larger systems that have their own unique location and time-specific histories. From either a macro- or micro-perspective, geology, just like the nature of science, teaching is always implicated within a variety of forces be it power, gender, race, truth, or even the function of knowledge. Yet, one of the most fascinating aspects of geology that I often find in the study of science teaching, is that over time, small ruptures can change an entire landscape. Through my scholarship and close work with beginning science teachers, I have found that gray or messy spaces in the landscape as extremely generative for examining science education as a deeply ethical endeavor. Like a geologist, science educators might begin considering their work as an assemblage of ideas, experiences, and forces rather than merely a process of dissemination.
Becky Carmichael
[4:31] Dr. Maria Wallace, thank you for joining me in this nice confinement of the CxC sound booth. I'm so excited to talk to you now that you are newly minted.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[4:44] I am so excited to be here. This is such a fun experience. Thank you for having me.
Becky Carmichael
[4:50] You're welcome. So, probably just to let everyone know, you and I have gotten to work with each other for a couple of summer, well a summer and then a year, right?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[5:00] Yeah, it's been a while. Actually, I think I started working with you my second year? No, it was my first year when I was applying for the NSF Graduate Research Fellowship.
Becky Carmichael
[5:10] Oh, that's right. Okay. So you and I've had a little bit of a history. We've gotten to know each other. But honestly, I think to hear your research, I'm really excited to kind of delve into that. First though, I'd like you to tell the listening audience a little bit about who you are and how you got to LSU.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[5:29] Well, I'm a bit of a nomad. So, but I'm wrapping up my PhD in curriculum instruction at LSU. I just defended like two weeks ago, I guess, which is really exciting and surreal at the same time. But before that, I was an elementary science teacher in Houston and Massachusetts, near Boston in a town called Dorchester. Before that, I was a geology major at a small liberal arts school, called Millsaps College, in Jackson, where I'll be headed to next to work with future teachers.
Becky Carmichael
[6:03] So it's almost come full circle for you, right?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[6:05] Yes, but it's so different at the same time.
Becky Carmichael
[6:09] So with that, what brought you or kind of what raised your interest into the research that you've been doing for the last four years for your dissertation?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[6:20] So I think it's really come out of my experiences in the classroom when I was teaching in Houston and Massachusetts, because I felt like the work that we're doing as teachers is so complicated, but we often don't get the time to actually ponder and sit and think through all of those complicated and really precious moments with students or with parents or with school administrators. And so I was really excited about my research, because it gave me the time and the space to think through those often quick interactions in a much deeper way.
Becky Carmichael
[6:55] I guess if we think about those interactions that you had with students and teachers, and then from this other side as a student, what are some of, explain some of the perspectives that you've been able to play with or give some more thought to? And then the second part of that question is going to be; how do you plan on implementing these now as you're going from the student, now in control of your own students in a classroom?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[7:27] So? That's a great question, because the word student and the word teacher are really difficult for me to use, actually, because I think they're one in the same. Because our students always teach us things, and our teachers always are good students. But even in that phrase, it's so, such a complicated statement that I don't want to take too lightly. But, to really, I guess, come back to the both and nature of everything that we do is we're always both a student and a teacher in some capacity. And so, you know, being a doctoral student and candidate here at LSU but then also moving on to work with future teachers, I don't think the both and of being student and teachers ever going to leave me.
Becky Carmichael
[8:13] This has had to really change your even interaction with your with what we consider students in the classroom. How do you instill with your students or with your class by calling it that with the members of your class. How do you instill in them that they are actually teaching you at the same time that you're sharing knowledge?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[8:31] So that is one of the first steps, I guess, that I do when I like I taught an undergraduate course on elementary science teachers science teaching instruction last semester at LSU. And one of the first things that I did in my class was made that explicit to my undergraduate students enrolled in the course here in LSU was that I was not just their instructor, but we were a classroom community where I had to first acknowledge all that they walked in the door with and use that as a jumping off point for my instruction rather than a predetermined set of ideas that I wanted to have them accomplish, but to work from their own interests and experiences that they already held with the teaching.
Becky Carmichael
[9:17] That sounds like for, you know, in terms of prepping for the class; were you doing this kind of on the fly a little bit, too, for a lack of a better phrasing?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[9:28] So it's a little I always go back to them both. It's like, I had a structure, but that structure for me when I designed my syllabi and everything was always permeable and fluid. And so based on what was happening in the class, those, the structure that I may be outlined for them, you know, whereas if it was due dates for assignments and things, was always up for negotiation between the undergrads and myself. So I always, even though maybe came in with an assignment idea, or even a rubric, those things were still always up for negotiation amongst myself and the students together in the, as a class community.
Becky Carmichael
[10:12] My immediate thought is, what were your, what were the members of your class? What was their initial reaction? And how did you? How did you absorb that reaction?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[10:26] So I think their initial reaction all the way around was like shock and surprise, because students aren't often given that opportunity to have a say, and how they want to experience their learning. And so I think that caught them off guard, which is understandable because the whole system of schooling and education begins by putting the teacher in the front of the room rather than viewing it as a community based kind of endeavor. So first surprise and then as the we got, we established, we had to kind of establish class norms for making it a safe space for us to negotiate together. So it wasn't just like, here you go, negotiate, you can do whatever you tell me is going to fly. It had to be agreed upon kind of by the whole class community, and we set up expectations to have those critical conversations rather than just making a quick decision.
Becky Carmichael
[11:22] And so I'm sure that not only the course content your students are learning, but they're also learning those important communication tools both interpersonal as well as navigating through differences of opinion. Were you also providing them with some structure for doing that?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[11:38] Definitely. And so there were many times where I always think about, especially in education and teacher education, this comes up often is that we want to model our instruction for future teachers as the way that we would hope k-12 classrooms start to unfold or maybe get engaged with differently. And so I always thought, as a teacher educator, it was so critical for me to think about my own practice and have critical conversations with those future teachers about the decisions I was making, so that they would hopefully translate them into their future classrooms as well. But then...I can't remember what the last part of the question was.
Becky Carmichael
[12:29] I asked you about the students, the communication component.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[12:35] Oh the communication? Yes. Okay.
Becky Carmichael
[12:38] That's okay. We do this.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[12:40] Oh, wait. So this is actually going to?
Becky Carmichael
[12:42] Maybe. Well, I think that we should really have to acknowledge the small space that you and I are recording within, and how hot it is in this space. And so you and I might suffer from some like short term memory effect. But I what I was really wanting you to answer was, you know, not only are you helping the students learn the course content, but this I think that I think that the structure of the class that you're describing, even though I could see them being very shocked because it's not going to be a typical class that you would find at the university, is that they're really going to be working on those important communication abilities such as navigating through conflict or trying to find a resolution, navigating opinions. And I think that was what I was really interested in finding out among your students.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[13:34] Yeah, definitely. So it, that's the unique nature, I guess, of working in education courses rather than some more, a different content area, maybe even like geology is that you're always practicing pedagogy as an instructor of maybe an undergraduate course, but also advocating for a particular approach to instruction or curriculum designed for future teachers to take into a K-12 setting. So that's always kind of a layered experience that's happening for the teacher educator, but then also for the future teachers, who will eventually graduate as a certified teacher and work in case trial schools. So communication, conversation, conversations about kind of communication skills that they'll need as a teacher, but then just as a human being navigating life are definitely always quite prevalent in education course.
Becky Carmichael
[14:32] So now I have like a two part question. One, how, how do you take what has been developed and designed in your class and how do you see it being implemented in say a 2000 level geology class? And how do I really want to get into the next part of how do you do this research?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[14:54] So if we were to, kind of, translate, I guess, some of my approaches to teaching and working with undergrads as a teacher educator to maybe a geology classroom. I always and I think back to when I was teaching third, fourth and fifth grade science students. I think back to, they all already experienced so much geology and Earth Science before they came to my classroom. And so really drawing on the spaces that were kind of resonant with her own upbringing in their neighborhood. Or even looking at the ditches, you know, down the street from their house. Or where can we find coast, not necessarily coastal erosion, but where can we find sediment being eroded by rain pipes on a school campus? So just starting from science as always already around us and then kind of making your content or your lesson objectives and syllabi come through in relation to the experiences they've already had.
Becky Carmichael
[15:58] So that just sounds exciting too, is kind of this implement the implementation of this work. So thinking about, I guess, it's really getting to know each other at the end of the day. And I do, I agree, I think that one of my biggest assignments or excitements at the beginning of the semester is who is going to be in the room? Of course I see their names. With Moodle, I can see their faces for some. But I'm always really excited about that personality, but also that what do they know already? So it sounds like this is what you're preparing your students as teachers to do is; get to know not only the person itself, but then what are they coming into the room that's going to contribute to the shared learning experience?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[16:43] Definitely all the way. And I think you said something that kind of also made me think about the research process that I engage with, where it was, it's about getting to know each other. And so that's how kind of what unfolded in my research and my dissertation was it was first about getting to know another person not necessarily applying an intervention or an approach to see how they might react in the classroom differently, but rather more of a cultural study and it's referred to in anthropology, sociology, and education as an ethnography. But where we study kind of culture and so working as a process of getting to know somebody and their experiences was how this research was conducted. But more specifically that I worked with interviews, and then also just kind of sat in on their planning session. So when they were designing their curriculum, what decisions were they grappling with and taking extensive notes about that conversation and the dilemmas they ran up against, and then going back and looking for themes across them, but then also using existing scholar literature and theories to help kind of expand how this fits into a grander scale.
Becky Carmichael
[18:01] So if you're listening to those conversations and you're doing interviews; tell me more about even just the basis of the score. Do you have to figure out when you're saying common themes, is there, did you find that there are certain phrasing that's used repeatedly? Is this to a basic of a question? I mean, this is again, I'm curious if this is in that realm of it still, is it considered quantitative, as well as qualitative, this kind of inner mesh?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[18:31] So that's a great question. And it's a question I always grapple with too was like, what constitutes research? And so that that question also is a great big one that underpins what I did, but most people would, can count my dissertation as fitting in the extreme qualitative side of research, where I'm also kind of blurring the lines between what counts as knowledge, really as fixed and stable, and something that we can actually go out there and grab and completely understand altogether. So that's one of the things that pushed me through my research was questioning what counts as knowledge and how do we study that from a researcher point of view? So I worked in order to kind of blur the lines and live in that gray space that's full of tenuous experiences and decisions. I had to work from two different perspectives of research, but making that explicit to my readers as well to say like, there are multiple ways of understanding this.
Becky Carmichael
[19:32] And so I think that brings me to the definitions. You're gonna you're gonna love this one, Maria. How do you now, how did you first define science? Yeah, I told you, you're gonna love it. How did how did you first define science? And now how do you define science? Or can you?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[19:53] Ah, such a good question because everybody has so many different definitions of science. And then, so but for me personally, and I think what we have to keep in mind is that there are certain definitions of science that come with more power and privilege in society and science education than others. And so you find those images of science more prevalent. One example of that is the scientific method in K-12. schools, you typically see it as a lockstep linear method and there's one right way to inquire about the world. Whereas for me, given my geology background at a liberal arts school, and a lot of my personal experiences that happened outside of school, I've used, I have and will probably always continue to view science as a very dynamic, emergent process that we is always unfolding. And we're going to continue to kind of just engage with phenomena, whether it's rocks or systems or tornadoes as they arise and kind of see where that research takes us. So for me, science is a very dynamic process that cannot necessarily be limited to a definite understanding or definite conception. And it's going to be different for every single person. So I think it always comes back to recognizing the complexity of the very definition we choose to talk about.
Becky Carmichael
[21:20] So now do you, do you still consider yourself or have you always considered yourself a scientist?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[21:26] I think we're all scientists, really. I think we all always already are scientists and that's the other assumption we might consider starting with, because oftentimes, especially in science education, the goal is to create more scientists, you know, for society and for different fields of study or career endeavors. But what if we started with a totally different assumption that we're already scientists that are just on a journey of inquiring about the world together? So that, for me, that's something very exciting to think about is what if we totally began from a different perspective of what science and scientists might become?
Becky Carmichael
[22:11] And so then thinking about the questions that can be generated, then it's, it's pretty much seeking out what's the best way to go about finding the answers, being knowledgeable about the sources of information that is already available. But then I think that if I'm understanding you correctly, looking around at the community within that maybe or is involved with that particular area and start talking about, how do I take those steps to go and look about these particular questions that I have
Maria F.G. Wallace
[22:43] Right. And to realize, I guess, or to not necessarily realize, but examine are the ways in which our ideas or about science, but also the questions that were interested in, might unfold in different types of research practices, or forms of inquiry. And so depending on the mode, or the apparatus that you use to study something, it can produce different different types of knowledge and different types of understandings of the world.
Becky Carmichael
[23:15] I think the other thing about kind of our conversation today that I'm really excited about, is it does put the onus on both the assigned instructor and the students that come into the class. I'm going to think that anyone listening should know then that the questions that they have can be valuable, and they are going to help shape somebody else's understanding and learning process. And so it really makes me even more excited to get back into the class and learn my learn who's going to be in there, and who's going to be going on that journey.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[23:49] Definitely. And that's actually kind of one of the things that I always kept telling my students, because I just felt it sticking was that I always told them that everything that happens in that class, or my interaction with them never leaves me. So whether it was a question they posed, or a way that they engaged in conversation, those memories, and even if I don't remember them, are becoming kind of entrenched in everything I do moving forward as a teacher, educator, or even as a human being. And so I think, for me, it was always important to, to realize and help other people realize that everything we do and say leaves a mark on a moment, or a space, or a person, and to really be delicate and careful about those interactions as they can hold great possibility, but also make some other things impossible.
Becky Carmichael
[24:40] I think that's also kind of getting at the root of, you know, what is what is being a thoughtful human being.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[24:46] Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[24:49] So I want to transition a little bit here. I want you, I can give you a minute. Not a lot. I want you to tell me, what do you think was one of your biggest learning moments while you've been here at LSU?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[25:07] I was thinking about this question. I think, um, and it kind of came up in my dissertation, I guess. And it was that to just kind of embrace the research journey as it unfolded, rather than thinking that I had a particular idea of what I thought my research should look like or do or what outcome I was hoping to get out of it. But to be okay with kind of following different lines of thought than I started out with. And also, the other thing that I feel like I learned so much about was learning how to embrace feelings of discomfort or being uncomfortable with knowledge, or the historical roots of knowledge, and the ways that we think about what we do. So finding almost joy in being comfortable, I feel like was one of the biggest things I guess I took away from doctoral research.
Becky Carmichael
[26:08] So there's that feeling mean that when you have when you end up being uncomfortable, it's really kind of challenging your, your initial thought process and getting you to really investigate at a deeper level deeper understanding.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[26:18] Definitely, yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[26:20] So Maria, I want you to tell me a little bit more about this, this change of direction or change in your path. I think for many people, when you get into these places where you're not doing what you originally set out for, it can be really disheartening. And you can start to to kind of feel down or frustrated. Do you have an example kind of illustrates how one of these moments turned into something powerful? Or, or, or did this, this change that's really been a big asset to you?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[26:58] Yeah. So I think I feel like my whole dissertation charts that and so but one of the things that happened was, you know, you go in, you have a dissertation proposal, and you write up for education and it's where do you hope to kind of, do this research. It was a critical kind of question to think about. And so I originally thought I was going to be working in K-12 schools doing my research. And so I applied to work in a public school district, and then also applied to another one because I actually was told no, by a school district.
Becky Carmichael
[27:31] Oh wow.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[27:32] And then I didn't get a response by another one. And so there, and there's a lot going on, of course, that to contextualize those responses. But being told no, and not getting a response from something actually still directed me to a really exciting research journey with science teachers that were participating undergraduate program. And so I had to kind of step back and be like, Maria, there is something already great kind of happening that you're involved in and so how can you use the experiences you already have? So going back to kind of thinking about, you know, the classroom in that way or your practice, but also our practice as researchers to see what's always already out there, instead of thinking that we have to go to a particular context, especially when we think about education.
Becky Carmichael
[28:23] No, I think that that's, that's really vital. I think that as I said, there has been there's been moments in any kind of thing and processes. Sometimes, sometimes you feel like you're failing or or something's not happening the way you need it to your you'd initially anticipated to turn out. But to have that time to just stop, take a moment, reflect, look around you and being more observant sometimes. And maybe it's not necessarily more observant, but it's just taking a step out of the situation and walking back in, whether it's that, you know, let me go run around the lakes for a couple, you know, an hour, or even just taking that mental break. Sometimes that helps you refocus and find these opportunities that are present.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[29:05] Definitely. Well, and when you were talking, it made me think about how not only new or different opportunities arose, but I had a whole slew of new questions too.
Becky Carmichael
[29:15] Oh wow.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[29:15] And it forced me to kind of think about what I was doing totally differently. I was like, oh my gosh, how am I going to engage this in my dissertation? Or should I save it for later? Like, all these new ideas about science education came. And I was like, oh, wow, okay, I have I have to focus. But it was so exciting, because without being told no, or not getting a response from places that I thought I might be told yes, I wouldn't have been able to think these new ideas about my work.
Becky Carmichael
[29:42] So once you're you're going to be starting Millsaps when?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[29:45] This fall. August 2017.
Becky Carmichael
[29:48] Oh my gosh.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[29:48] Yeah, it's exciting, but...
Becky Carmichael
[29:50] It's really exciting and I'm gonna so miss you.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[29:53] I know. I know. I'm gonna miss y'all too.
Becky Carmichael
[29:55] So, what do you anticipate some of your research? What are some of the research you are going to be doing at Millsaps, then? Or what do you hope to be doing at Millsaps?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[30:06] Oh, gosh, it's such a hard question. I feel like I have so much. I mean, I've been doing the research for my dissertation so I really need to wrap up those writing projects and really delve into that. But then I also think that there's a lot of exciting work to be done in thinking about how teachers, regardless if it's science, or some other content area, always kind of walk into your classroom with a practice already. And so working from the notion that people, even if they're not a teacher, come with a pedagogy kind of. And so thinking about how do we work in teacher education if we know that, and so and then also how various perceptions of how we conceptualize different content areas also come with a particular pedagogy. So just a few pondering, I guess, but it'll continue to unfold probably.
Becky Carmichael
[31:01] And then maybe somebody will tell you yes, more often than no.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[31:07] But it'll be okay I think if they don't.
Becky Carmichael
[31:10] I think it'll be okay too. What do you do when you're not thinking about the science education pedagogy?
Oh, gosh. That's so hard.
It's just, this should not be hard. Well, I guess it should be because you're finished
with just finished your Ph.D. and what have you been doing is writing like a madwoman?
Right?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[31:30] This is the thing is, and this is what I don't know. It's good. And it's bad. But I feel like it always stays with me. So I kept keeps coming back to like, I always think about teaching. I always think about science. I always think about education. I'm serious. It's kind of crazy. But like tomorrow, what I'm doing when I'm not technically thinking about science education is I'm going to do geology field work with scientists who are pulling core to look at coastal erosion. And so that for me is fun. And, but I would also say it's a great example of science education. And so it's always throughout.
Becky Carmichael
[32:08] So know. I, I would totally nerd out with you on that moment, because I'm sure that you're going into a pretty interesting ecosystem. What's your favorite food Maria?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[32:21] Chocolate, chocolate, probably. I'm a sucker for pizza too.
Becky Carmichael
[32:27] Pizza is always tasty. Have you gone to Lit?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[32:29] No.
Becky Carmichael
[32:30] Oh my gosh, what are you what are we doing in this hot sound booth? Have a Lit pizza together? Um.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[32:35] This is an asterisk; I have not had lunch yet. So that's probably why I'm talking about food.
Becky Carmichael
[32:42] Oh, now, now I feel terrible. What. What is something that that might surprise someone to learn about you?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[32:58] So growing up, I was in Future Farmers of America. And so with that, I raised six show pigs and show goats and so that would be I guess, a surprising feature of things that I enjoy just hanging out with the animals and and that also, I think contributed to my ideas about science, too. So.
Becky Carmichael
[33:20] Really?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[33:21] Yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[33:21] So tell me. Because we just we were just talking about this too about the pig.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[33:26] Yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[33:28] Yeah. You said you had you had six show pigs?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[33:31] Yeah. They're about 300 pounds.
Becky Carmichael
[33:33] Yeah. Oh, they're big pigs.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[33:36] And then my first goat was named Hershey. So like I said, chocolate is important. Oh, yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[33:44] Well, I mean, I think that that makes sense that, you know, when you're around kind of organisms around animals, it kind of really influences because I know, growing up, I really felt that I was going to be a veterinarian. And I mean, I could take, I could take care of Chunkita, I knew what to do with her and her siblings. But it did change. And instead of somebody telling me no, it was more of my body and my my mental capacity was telling me no. So tell me a little bit about.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[34:11] So I guess one of the things that stuck out to me, I mean, I raised animals as part of FFA, but one of the other things that I did that I didn't expect is I did a lot of soil science and agronomy studies in high school and looked at, you know, I took courses in horticulture, agriculture, all these things. Those are what I took for fun. And so I feel like it always just kind of like this, there's this thing I like to think about with science, there's always some kind of stickiness of it, that it stays with you. And so that's where it comes, for me, at least back to a really deeply personal and ethical kind of engagement is that there's always some stickiness to everything we experience. So that's why we have to be a little bit real will always should be thoughtful about what we do. But yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[34:59] So I also you can tell me know if you don't want to include this, so would you say then that you're you're still using some of some creatures in your pedagogical approach?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[35:13] I'm contemplating? Yes. So when I was in elementary science teacher, I had lots of animals in my classroom, and one of them was a leopard gecko. And so she hasn't stayed back with that classroom. But I did decide to acquire more Leopard Geckos, and I'm actually this is how the I'm very excited. I'm taking them to Millsaps. And so they'll be in my office, and they're going to have a whole new journey of academia and teacher education. So I think there's again looking for inspiration all around us, Leopard Geckos are great one for adaptations.
Becky Carmichael
[35:47] Do you want to share how someone who's listening could follow the journey of those leopard gecko?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[35:53] They do have their own Instagram? @Leotwinsies.
Becky Carmichael
[36:04] Oh, my goodness. So if we'll have that too, we can have that in the description as well. So someone can follow that
Maria F.G. Wallace
[36:10] Oh my gosh.
Becky Carmichael
[36:11] If you were not headed to Millsaps, what would be your alternative career?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[36:23] Oh, my gosh, that's tough. I would probably go be a teacher again.
Becky Carmichael
[36:29] You'd be a teacher again?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[36:30] Yeah. In a classroom, a K-12 classroom again. I've thought about it.
Becky Carmichael
[36:35]
Yeah. That's a fun group of, of individuals to be around too, every day.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[36:40] Yeah. And I've thought about it because it's also once you go through your doctorate experience in education, to go back to a classroom, you kind of have a whole new kind of view of that experience. So I thought that would be a really neat thing to do as well. So
Becky Carmichael
[36:59] What advice would you give someone who is interested in pursuing this area of study? What would it be some suggestions?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[37:10] To be okay with not knowing or thinking that you don't know something?
Becky Carmichael
[37:16] How do you do that?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[37:20] I feel like for me, at least, it's always about stopping and wondering and, and being okay with ambiguity and not there's not always a black or white answer or the right or wrong, but really embracing the, the kind of coolness and like really neat spot of gray that we don't often reside in. So we live I saw this quote the other day we live in a world of either/ors but what would we kind of, what would we find out if we lived in the gray and the both and? And so for me, I think is really living that like a motto. Like a life motto maybe?
Becky Carmichael
[38:01] The both and?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[38:02] Yeah
Becky Carmichael
[38:03] I like this. But I mean, I like that gray area.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[38:06] Well, yeah, yeah, I think the both and is also gray sometimes?
Becky Carmichael
[38:10] I think it is.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[38:10] Yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[38:11] Yeah. Is there anything that you haven't already shared that you would like to that you'd like to include in this podcast?
Maria F.G. Wallace
[38:22] Becky Carmichael is an amazing person.
Becky Carmichael
[38:24] Oh, I love you.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[38:27] And CxC is doing some amazing things that don't often get talked about. And it's, I think, this is just one example. I guess I mentioned this earlier, but how it's podcasts like these I think that help make ideas live on and ways that previously would just sit on a piece of paper, nobody would engage with and so I think this is just an exciting experience. And thank you for having me.
Becky Carmichael
[38:56] No, you're welcome. I'm glad you agreed to do this particularly two weeks out of defending your, your dissertation and going on that really hard journey. So Dr. Maria Wallace.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[39:10] Oh gosh.
Becky Carmichael
[39:10] You know you've got to use that. You've got to use that for a while. Sign your name with that.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[39:15] Alright, Dr. Carmichael.
Becky Carmichael
[39:19] Maria, it has been a pleasure having you today. Thank you for hanging out with me in this incredibly hot sound booth in our CxC Studio. I wish you the best of luck.
Maria F.G. Wallace
[39:31] Thanks so much.
Grant Kimbell
[39:37] This episode of Experimental was recorded and produced in CxC studio 151 here at Louisiana State University and is supported by LSU's Communication Across the Curriculum and the College of Science. Today's interview was conducted, edited and produced by Becky Carmichael. To learn more about today's episode, subscribe to the podcast, ask questions and to recommend future investigators visit CxC.lsu.edu/experimental.